The Battle Barn

This will be somewhat of a long post, but I ask that everyone read through it.

For those who haven't been keeping track, we've been doing gaming at the barn for a good 6 months now. In that time frame, I like to believe that we've really brought many elements of the scattered Grand Rapids area hobby together in one place. I'm quite happy with the way things have turned out, and from talking with others, my happiness is shared by quite a few. With our first major event (the Escalation League) about to end, I thought this might be a good time to share some ideas and concerns that I have with the future of gaming here at The Barn.

As some of you may know, Jeff has given me full control of The Barn and activities that occur within. While obviously he still retains veto control over anything that happens (given that he owns the property) all of the day-to-day operations have been fully relinquished over to me. The reason I bring this up, is that I should be your first contact to approach about any concerns/problems/ideas/etc... when it comes to The Barn or anything related to the gaming group. While I certainly will bring certain items up with Jeff for his consideration and advice, he has stated to me that unless needed, he leaves all decisions up to me and will abide by the decisions I make.

Now, with all my dictator-like speeches aside, let's look at what the future may bring. We've grown our group to a nice number, with an average of about 11-15 people showing up on each gaming night. This gives us great leeway in running fun leagues and campaigns, having a nice-sized pool of players to try out new miniature games and/or board games that might be brought out. As stated in the Events board, I am more than willing to help people run their own events here at The Barn. All that is needed is a discussion with me and we can decide together how best to make the request truly happen.

As I sat on my couch last evening, relaxing from the drive home from Toledo and brainstorming about things at The Barn, I realized that while it is certainly a great place to play, it could be so much better as well. Typing a few things, I came up with a short list of what I'd like to see happen in the months ahead:
*Adding more terrain to the supply so that we are less reliant on items brought by individual people
*Working on the terrain that we have to bring it up to a fully finished & painted level
*Replacing or adding new gaming boards, including flocking or placing a mat on the playing surface to give them all a similar look, size, and height
*Obtaining prize support for tournaments/leagues/campaigns that are run in The Barn
*Obtaining items and supplies to make future improvements to the barn, such as shelves for terrain, cabinets for armies, new windows etc...
*Hosting some type of Club Night every couple of months, with drinks and food provided along with some form of gaming entertainment

As you can see, I came up with a good amount of items in just such a short time. The thing stopping us from doing all of these though, is the lack of money. Donations have helped a little bit in the past, and for that I am very thankful for those that have helped us with their assistance. Instead of donations however, I am instead considering applying monthly dues for all those who come out to game at The Barn.

I know that some people may be completely against this idea, and I'm absolutely willing to hear discussion on the manner. Allow me to put my points forward. Running The Barn costs money. Especially in the winter, as the heater uses natural gas that is not free. The electricity that we use is not free, and this money has to come from somewhere. As all of us use these resources in some way almost every week, it is only fair that we help pay for the resources that we use. Improvements to the barn, including adding additional gaming aids is not free either. Our terrain, to put it honestly, doesn't look very good. Some time and effort in building, painting, and flocking the terrain is needed to bring it up to a good quality. Not to mention resources required to make the tables and playing surfaces more appealing to play on.

Let's test out an example. Say we have 15 people as full members of the Club. We charge $5 per month for Club dues.
15 * 5 = $75 a month

That is month that will allow us to do quite a bit with The Barn and any events that we want. I've lamented that our inability to run a tournament stems primarily from the fact that we have no public bathroom. Using money collected from dues, we could then rent a port-a-potty for the weekend, and host a tournament here. With money from the tournament and dues, we could offer up decent prize support to the winners, as well as possible door prizes for all those who attend. With the money, we could host a Club Night every couple of months, with free drinks/food to all members, as well as some type of fun event to pass along the evening. Maybe a Saturday event with the barbecue running and meats provided by us.

To me, dues are not a big deal, as any other public gaming area would have something similar. Battlefront requested $5 a night for using their gaming tables. That obviously was fairly expensive, and had they actually been diligent about collecting such fee's, I wouldn't have gamed their very often. My plan is a more simple, once-per-month fee, that will be charged to everyone (including myself). Some people may argue that most game stores don't charge for open gaming. While that may be true, they have an avenue to collect revenue from people regardless - people buy product from the stores. They still have cash flow coming in that can help offset the costs involved with open gaming. We have no such cash flow, and thus my reasoning for possibly adding these dues.

I will not hide the money from anyone. I will keep detailed records and keep some type of document available online and kept up to date about how much money has been collected each month and by who, how much money is available in the fund, and record any purchases that the money has been used for. None of this money will go into the pockets of ANYONE. Every single penny collected will in some way be used to make our gaming Club better. That is something I want to make clear.

So there you have it. My big, huge post about what I think needs to happen to make our Club better and not stagnate. As mentioned above, these changes are not 100%, and can easily change over time. I want to foster a discussion and get feedback from people on why this may be a good or bad idea. Put your thoughts together and post away. Tell me why I'm a fool for bringing this up. Praise me for my thoughtfulness in implementing such a bold and great plan. All I ask is that you keep your discussions civil, and explain why you may like or dislike the idea. Everyone's voice matters here, which is why I bring this up for discussion.

Brian

I'm on board with it all.

And as for any necessary labor...count me in...no Land Raider bonus needed.

I think this is a good idea. The monthly fee isn't a bad idea. I'm all for it, hopefully other people are for it to, especially for tournaments and prize's and the like.



AND LIGHTNING BOLT

For those of you that don't know this is Jeff.

I just wanted to say that I think we need some way of generating cash flow to continue gaming operations and dues are defiantly a good way of accomplishing that. I would be comfortable with paying dues to support the barn.

Brave Rifles

I agree with the idea. And this whole thing got me thinking about what else we could do for some extra cash. On a day we host a tournament, we get bulk burgers (you know those frozen meat circles from Gordon Foods) and buns and condiments and grill some burgers and sell them for $1 for lunch. So people can have $1 cheeseburgers without going anywhere instead of driving to BK or somewhere else. Just another thought.

Like I said, Im on board.

I'm okay with $5 a month. As for the terrain stuff I've brought in. Eventually I will be leaving and my terrain will be going with me (durr). So with that said I fully intend to make it suitable for city fighting on an ash world and not the typical greenery you see in most Warhammer boards. Fortunately I mostly own ruins so that won't be much of an issue on painting it and making it blend with the other boards despite being designed for an ash world. I just ask that when we do it that I am there to over see the general direction of how my stuff is being painted and put on wooden bases. On another note I do have flock for the board I brought in that we can use. It can also be used for ruins real easily.

I had a feeling that the subject of dues or money would come up at some point. While I don't like having another expense any more than the next guy, Jeff has been more than generous with his property and utilities that he has been allowing us free use of. I have no problem with $5 a month either to cover construction costs, utilities, or whatever. Most places that allow free play do so because they need to promote the hobby and get people into the store where they will buy things, and even many stores don't support free play. The Barn is not a store, so the overhead has to come from somewhere else. Some dues make perfect sense to me, and I will leave it to people with a better grasp of what it costs to run the place to suggest what the dues should be.

Just want to add my voice in support of this. I am perfectly fine with paying monthly dues to help make it a better experience for all of us; and potentially even a tournament/event fee to help cover the cost of prizes for the winners, or any other costs that are incurred by running the event.

Brian you had also mentioned the possibility of suggesting a painting weekend at some point in the future, in place of or at least before actual gaming that day. I'm all for it, and think that if we had 10+ people all working together on getting some of the terrain and buildings started, we could get alot done in a short amount of time.

I have debated several days before I decided to post my reply.

I fully agree with the fact that Jeff is awesome for making a very good space available for anyone willing to play. That is fantastic. I also understand that is not free. I really appreciate the people who have contributed time and money to make it a great place to game.

That being said, the barn is not exactly next door to me, so it costs around $5 to drive to the barn every time I go. I don't have to tell anyone how hard times are, which is one of the reasons this was posted. Of course, this is not a cheap hobby. Perhaps this is simply another expense in order to be able to exploit my army and get together with a great group of people and kill as much as possible.

The short answer, I would to help. The hobby is expensive and the dues discussed represent only a small % of what I spend on Warhammer every year. Unfortunately, Joshua and I can only go out there about once a month, so it would be $5 each time we play ($10 if Joshua would be expected to pay, as well). Frankly, I am not sure I would continue to play at the barn given a dues situation. I have been involved with a group in Coopersville (not as good) that is about a far to drive. Grandiosity in Muskegon reportedly has an active Warhammer 40K group (an a newly active fantasy group). The cost of driving to Muskegon has kept us from driving into Muskegon. With dues at the barn, the costs are now even between the barn and Grandiosity. Also, Grandiosity offers a 20% on all Games Workshop materials, which means my costs of the hobby would probably be reduced.

I wonder how many other people would not come if dues were required. The group has been growing nicely and now fields a decent sized group--will the continue? Any group needs new members (which pretty much killed the Coopersville group I was part of).

Well there is an easy solution around that JohnRCS. Perhaps for those that can't always make it out have a single night cost $1.25 After four nights it still equals $5.00, but if you pay the $5 then you get the whole month including those bizarre 5th Friday of the month days. As we all know (as I especially do since I am not at game as I type this), we can't always make it out there which is where the pay by night thing comes in handy. Does this sound good to anyone else?

$2 per play
$5 per month
$50 per year

Sounds reasonable

Another method of raising some money would be through munchies. After all, what gaming session does not involve munchies? We normally stop someplace to purchase chips and soda, usually a convenience store (i.e. high prices on the chips). If anyone has a Sam's Club or Costo membership, soda and munchies can be picked up relatively cheap, just put a can to collect money at a nice profit to help collect money.

--or-- collect $5 per head per night and that includes soda and chips.

Just some thoughts.

Eh don't know about the $5 a night. That will add up quick, especially since some of us don't even buy food. Now food for purchase would be alright by me.

@John & @Dale

You guys are mind-readers. This is almost exactly the way I was thinking about. John had made a good point. Charging someone $5 when they realistically can come out once a month was a big pill to swallow. I know I felt the same issues whenever I headedout to Battlefront and they made me pay the $5 a night. Just didn't seem worth it.

Dale had a good point as well, making it more managable to charge a nightly fee for those who can't make it very often. I do like John's pricing structure though. I would want to make the nightly fee slightly more expensive to provide incentive for people to pay the monthly. Plus, it makes it much easier on me to not have to go around asking for money from every single person each and every night.

The snacks and concessions idea has been discussed by Jeff and I in the past, and it sounds like a good idea. I wouldn't be surprised to see something of the sort pop up at the barn in the next few weeks. Making food runs is a pain sometimes, and I know I'd like to be able to just grab a bag of chips instead of convincing someone to run out to BK for me.

Thanks for all the feedback from everyone. I was a little nervous in bringing this subject up, as obviously many people have alternating views on 'pay for play' situations. I'm glad that everyone seems to understand the situation The Barn is in, and that we're not charging money just to line our pockets.

I like this idea. I think it is probably the best balance for those of us who are there almost every weekend and those who can only make it once in a while. I wouldn't expect the people who can only make it about once a month to pay the same as someone who's there every weekend.



I have a Costco membership and would gladly pick up munchies and soda to support this.

While I am clearly not thrilled about the idea of paying to play I do understand that upkeep of the Barn does cost money. The dues suggested seem more than fair and I would gladly pay them to continue gaming there. The $2 nightly, $5 monthly and $50 early sounds fair to me. As a side note I think that there is a serious lack of coffee at the barn. I plan on changing that soon, but first I have to finish closing on my house! Then I plan on donating a coffee maker to the barn.

can i pay dues in terrain??? i love building terrain.