The Battle Barn

Well, i had to call GW to get a new sword for a dreadnight kit yesterday. The guy I spoke with brought up some interesting thoughts. First he asked why i would even be using the sword when the hammer was so much better. that being said, I may have found an issue. The dreadkight comes with 2 doomfists, the doomfist is a dreadnought close combat weapon. So, one extra attack right? Under the dreadnought ccw entry it says its a power weapon and a WALKER gains 2X strength and one extra attack. The dreadnight is a monsterous creature so its attacks are all ready count as power weapon. So what does it gain? Nothing rules as written, as far as i can tell. so going back to what it can have. the daemon hammer counts as a thunder hammer that strikes at normal I and the sword is a power weapon that re-rolls to hit, to wound and vehicle damage results.

hammer:
3 attacks str 10 2d6 pen roll for a max pen total of 22
sword:
3 attacks str 6 or 7 (hammerhand) 2d6 pen roll (with re-rolls) max pen total of 18 or 19, the re-rolls make it more impressive
doom fist:
3 attacks str 6 or 7 (hammerhand) 2d6 pen rolls max pen total of 18 or 19

For the points I'm wondering why you would ever take the hammer...
Because of the re-rolls the sword looks great, but the point cost looks sad.

funny side note, i asked them why it even has dreadnought ccw's base if it cant use them.
GW guy "mmm, I dont know."

Okay...so you take the hammer because it's 10 points to get the additional autostun rule that all thunder hammers have in addition to other results.

But if you are beating on tanks then you're hoping that you do more than stun it...the two fists are better for the extra attack.

The fists are S10 on the Dreadknight and grant an extra attack.

The sword lets you kill infantry with ease. And is more worth it if the FaQ says "moves as jump infantry" given the personal teleporter. Because then you get rerolls on everything and stay an MC.

So fists for beating on tanks when you also have a teleporter. Or sword when you dont have the teleporter and are hoofing it.

These are my conclusions thus far.

If the MC becomes jump infantry through use of the teleporter...then the sword loses effectiveness 10-fold.

We will see...

rules as written, only walkers gain an extra attack for dread ccw and 2X strength.
dreadnight is a monster creature so no 2X str and no extra attack

Yeah...wait for the FaQ...no one intelligent is going to argue otherwise...yet another area where the intent is obvious but there are nay sayers trying to twist things to their liking.

I agree, if the doom fist is a dread ccw then whats the point of the hammer?

4 attacks str 10 2d6 pen: free
3 attacks str 10 2d6 pen with stunned: 10 pts

I would go with free

This is why I think he will stay jump infantry.

If you take a teleporter and he loses MC status, then.

4 attacks at s10 free
3 attacks at s10 and shaken as well as the initiative reduction for eternal warriors, and other T6 models that take a wound

Seems like a daemon killing weapon to me...

i think the jump infantry part was covered by the nid faq.
hive tyrants dont loose mc when they take wings, so why would DK's?

Because that is the way it is worded right now. Right now it is very clear that they are jump infantry.

Which means you now have to make a lot of choices.

Can't take a teleporter and guns effectively...because you're not relentless. Can't fly up to a vehicle and release your rerollable S6 MC rage because you lose 2d6 armor pen.

I can see it going either way.

You gain an extra attack anyway (even monstrous creatures to my knowledge) for having two of the same special weapons in close combat. Since it is not a vehicle and strength 10 to begin with (right?) it should be getting a bonus attack. Otherwise if it does not then there was no point in ever making the fists.

i agree completely.

i called GW again last night and they said that the Dreadknight move like jump inf.

really really?

taat wold make a whole new kind of fighting machine

so the way it sounds, and how i will probably be running them, until a faq comes out dccws don't work for a dreadnight and if he has teleportas the he "moves as" jump inf.

so 2 doom is str 6 no bonus att and dont do nuthin.

hammer gets ya str 10 and stunned.

sword is str 6 with re-rolls on hit, wound and damage.

all at 2d6 pen.

and the big silver (or green, hehehe) beastie moves as jump inf if hes got the personal teleporta

any objections feel free to tell me, i wont care but it may make you feel better!

Now there would never be a reason not to take the sword for a CC oriented Knight.

I like the Sword on the Dreadknight, re-rolls to hit and to wound is solid even if you lose an attack.

I still don't think that the Dreadknight changes its unit type if it takes a personal teleporter, but then again I loathe the way GW has been doing up its armories in their Codex's, it brings up this very issue of overlooking what I consider a simple mistake as well as making it a pain to look up one or two pieces of equipment.

I have no idea what they intended with the Dreadknight having 2 DCCW's. It doesn't really make sense especially when it could just have had Powerfists that strike at Initiative.

-Bryan

Elsewhere on the Net, people have been blaming that sort of confusion on Matt Ward's inability to write clearly. For an example of how it should be done, look at the Daemons codex. It's very clear whether a unit upgrade changes a model's core type or not. A Herald of Tzeentch (probably others as well) BECOMES Jump Infantry or Jetbike if you give it a mount or chariot. A Daemon Prince or any of the HQ monsters MOVE AS Jump infantry but stay as monstrous creatures. I think GW should have an internal rule that all codices have to be proofread by whoever is responsible for making the Daemon one clear.

Or they could fire Matt Ward.

There always is the shit can option...

Wow I now understanding warding staves. It makes sense that they used to give you a 2+ no matter what (and everyone could take them.) The damn things are named after the author! thank Tzeentch someone changed that without him knowing.