The Battle Barn

Hey all, I'm redoing my Black Templar and we already have a pretty solid 1.5k list. (Seen below)
HQ: Emperors Champion: For Preferred Enemy 140pts
Marshal: Power Weapon, Storm Shield, Terminator Honors, Auspex, Meltabombs. Army wide LD 10 so troops can move up. 133pts

Troops:
2x Squads of 5 crusaders (1 Lascannon, 4 CC weapons). Long Range Fire Support and objective holders. 95pts Each

4x Squads of 10 crusaders (1 Power fist, 1 Meltagun, 8 CC weapons) Frags, Move up and kill things. 195pts each

2x Predator Destructor (Autocannon, Lascannon sponsons) Smokes. Long range fire support. 128pts each

Total: 1499.

OK now comes the part where I am stuck. I have 301 pts to spend. So I want termies because.. Well they are terminators, the question is which ones do I bring?

Unless I drop around two of the melee crusader squads any assault terminators I bring are going to be either walking or deep striking and having just two squads of ten troops moving forward is too little so if I run the assault terminators I need to set them up to survive a turn of shooting (Thunderhammers and storm shields have been updated and have no additional cost)

Here are the two terminator set ups I am working on:
A: Assault Termies
Squad of 8 with Furious Charge (3 lightning Claws, 5 storm shields) and the Marshal now has a teleport homer (more odd points to spend)

This leaves us with 1848

B: Shooty Termies
Squad of 7 with Tank Hunters (3 Power fist/Storm Bolter, 2 Chainfist/Storm Bolter, 2 Assault Cannon/Powerfist) The marshal no longer has a teleport homer.

This leaves us with 1850 pts.

So which set up should it be and what changes should be made? Remember that the abilities are 3pts per guy and the options are tank hunters or furious charge (same for both squads)

Thanks in advance for any help!

Without the ability to take a LR to transport them I think I like option B a bit better. It's pretty close, but the dual assault cannons pushes it over the edge... barely! Without a transport assault terminators have the potential to be avoided all game by your opponent. They don't even need to kill them just move away. The shooty-nators have the ability to reach out and touch someone, hard, from range. With proper use of terrain they will still be quite resilient too.

That's my $.02

So my initial thought is that looking at the list is that the predators "feel" out of place. You have a huge marine horde going and then two vehicles. My guess is those vehicles take all of the anti-tank shooting and die within a turn or 2 without doing much for the list. As a result I would consider swapping them out for something else.

Additionally I agree with Eric, if you use assault termies you need something to get them there or they will just be shot to death and never impact the game.

So because of that I think what I would do is drop them in favor of attack bikes with multimeltas.

So at 1850 I am thinking something like this

1850 Pts - Black Templars Roster

Emperor's Champion, 140 pts Accept Any Challenge

Marshal, 161 pts Crusader Seals; Terminator Honors; Frag Grenades; Power Weapon; Storm Shield;
1 Adamantine Mantle

2x Crusader Squads, 95 pts 4 Bolt Pistol/CCW, 1 Lascannon


2x Crusader Squad, 178 pts 7 Bolt Pistol/CCW, 1 Meltagun, 1Bolt Pistol & Power Fist

2x Crusader Squad, 174 pts 7 Bolt Pistol/CCW, 1 Flamer, 1 Bolt Pistol & Power Fist

3x 2 Attack Bike Squadron, 130 pts Multi-melta x2

1 Sword Brethren Terminator Squad, 265 pts
3 Terminator (Power Fist; Storm Bolter; Tank Hunters)
2 Terminator with Cyclone Missile Launcher (Cyclone Missile Launcher; Power Fist; Storm Bolter; Tank Hunters)

That comes in at exactly 1850. Makes your marshal immune to ID, gives you six relentless multi-meltas and a couple of 2 shot relentless cyclone missile launchers that are effective Str 9 versus vehicle. Additionally the flamers and frag missile option gives you a better shot against horde.

If you like it let me know I have the list in AB and give you a nice print out of it or email to you

Thanks for the feed back guys.
I think I will stick with the shooty termies and this Friday will equip them with the Rockets because (as we all agree) assault terminators need something to transport them up.

as for dropping the predators and replacing them with the Attack bikes, I will try that out Friday as well. It sounds interesting and merits a few games of play.

As for dropping the guy from each squad and getting Adamantine mantle on my commander. I think it is a bit too expensive and would rather full squads (or as near as possible)

Between Flamers and melta guns, With six multimeltas on the field I think I can do that swap and will be OK. I will need to proxy the bikes for now though.

Thanks again for the responses, I will tweak some lists to try out.

When I added bikes to my Space Marine army, I went with the "Dark Angels Ravenwing Battleforce". It is $105 (retail), and includes: Dark Angels Ravenwing Bikers (includes 6 Ravenwing Bikes), Dark Angels Ravenwing Attack Bike (includes 1 Ravenwing Attack Bike) and Dark Angels Ravenwing Land Speeder (includes 1 Ravenwing Land Speeder). In other words, 1 attack bike, 6 bikes and a Land Speeder. If you just want the attack bikes, not the best way to go, but if you want to add full bike squads, this is a great way to go. It also comes with LOTS of fun bitz, including dreadnought bitz.

I love the Land Speeders, but being open top with an armor of 10, they die quickly. Also, if you put 2 or 3 in a squadron, then immobilized = dead.

I do love my bikes...toughness 5 and twink linked bolters on a relentless platform unleashes massive firepower. They move faster than terminators and unleash similar firepower (the twin linked bolters are almost as good as the storm bolters on the termies, better in rapid fire range); they also cost less (25pts vs. 40pts--at least in the Space Marine Codex).

A squad of 8 bikes + an attack bike = 9 twin linked bolters and a heavy bolter (or melta). 9 bolters, rerolling misses means you have an 89% of hitting (8 hits), plus 2 more hits from the heavy bolter. At ranges of 12" or less (rapid fire range), you get two shots each from the bolters (regardless of move thanks to relentless) or 16 hits on average. Against T4, this means 8 wounds and 1 or 2 more from the heavy bolter on the attack bike. (Sorry, I have been practicing my "math-hammer" lately).

Let me know how this plays after a few games. I am thinking they will go well with your overall list better than the predators



I can see that, I tend to like a character that won't get punked out by a powerfist but the extra marine or two can be helpful as well.



Not only do you have the 6 multi-meltas you also have the 4 Str 9 Krak missiles vs vehicles. You shouldn't be lacking for anti-tank

After you get a chance to play a few games with the list let me know how it worked and what was giving you trouble and we can play around with it a little because I had some ideas to put another 5 man terminator squad in there as well.